Is Dave’s ESL Cafe to Blame for Unsavory Schools?

david — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:13:00 +0000

Katie, the lamentably retired TEFL Logue blogger, discussed the issue of whether or not TEFL job sites contribute to the proliferation of the poor conditions that exist to such a large degree in our industry/profession. As I’m going to add my thoughts on this matter, I’ve pasted the blog entry below:

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The topic of ESL or EFL job sites as the cause of the tefl world’s woes comes up every now and again. Should job sites take responsibility for screening job ads? Should they remove them if there are complaints? And are they responsible for the proliferation of “lemon” EFL jobs if they don’t?

Well, no, to the last one.

These are hard questions to answer – to the first one, given the global nature of EFL work, I think it would be impossible in practical terms to screen jobs well enough to make any difference, and if it could be done, would leave us only with a small selection of schools that could provide whatever the site required.

And it wouldn’t solve the problem of bad employers anyway, as school staff – not just teachers – come and go. I think the fact that a variety of ads are available for comparison is a huge benefit to EFL teachers, and the existence of multiple sites is much better than the existence of one all-powerful one.

Should job ads be removed or refused if there are complaints? I think there is a fair enough argument for this, if the complaints are well-documented and presented, and especially if they are from different sources. One difficulty is obviously that it is hard to ensure the veracity of a complaint (i.e. that the teacher is telling the truth): in a field so based on Internet exchange of information, there are plenty of reasons which a dishonest person might manufacture a story (to get back at someone, to hurt a competitor). Another problem is that a truly “bad” school can just lie to get around whatever restriction there is…advertise with a different name (or no name) and alternate contact information. I don’t think this happens frequently, but a school bad enough to merit a serious complaint is exactly the kind of school that would lie to get around a given restriction. Claiming that jobs are screened could very well lull people into a false sense of security.

The moral of this post, I suppose, is that I don’t agree that job sites somehow play an accomplice role to schools from the dark side – keep your wits about you when searching and use more than one site. Think hard about accepting a job in any form other than in person, and check out the questions to ask at an interview while you’re at it.
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Given the recent tragic events in Korea, I felt this was a pertinent time to revisit this issue. A lot of you who read the blog also frequent the forums and are therefore are familiar with the reasons why I set up the forums. Basically, I was disgusted with the way that another forum, Dave’s ESL Cafe, conducted its business. Let me explain…

While I agree with certain points that Katie raised, namely that 1) it’s impossible to screen schools effectively if you‘re accepting paid adverts from all around the world, and 2) any complaints made by teachers are always going to be purely subjective (yes, sometimes teachers ARE in the wrong) and not entirely reliable, I believe that TEFL jobs sites could raise the bar significantly and easily and indeed become more profitable in the process.

Let me return to the dear old ESL Cafe; the main culprit in this sorry business. Dave’s ESL Cafe remains an incredibly popular resource among the TEFL community, indeed, it was suggested to me as a source for finding job openings way back when I did my CELTA. The number of job openings advertised on the site is remarkable and a huge source of income for those running the site (I’ve heard rumours that Dave Sperling no longer runs things – please confirm). What disgusted me, eventually causing me to set up ELT World, was (and continues to be) the practice of censoring any information about bad schools that were paying advertisers. Katie made a good point about bad schools merely slithering around attempts to name and shame them, but when you’re actively promoting a policy of denying people who use your website access to information that would enable them to make a better decision about whether or not to take a job, you’re effectively working in partnership with the cowboys: by condoning their practices, you are to blame for their behaviour. Are other sites as shoddy in their approach as the ESL Café? Maybe. What’s for sure is that this isn’t helping to improve our industry/profession and is, sadly as we’ve recently seen, may be putting people’s lives at risk.

I don’t know the details of Bill Kapoun’s contract, who arranged his accommodation or how he got his job, but this case highlights the fact that too many places are not treating TEFL teachers with the respect that should be accorded to any human being.

So, are ESL job sites to blame for unsavory schools? No, these places wil exist as long as human greed remains. However, the blatant, greed-fueled encouragement that unscrupulous businesses receive from the likes of Dave’s ESL café definitely ain’t helping matters.

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Mr Kalgukshi speaks

david — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:04:00 +0000

Not to me, let me make that perfectly clear from the start. My good friends over at the TEFL News Network gave me advance warning that this was coming and I have to admit to a little foaming at the mouth in anticipation of this interview. I’m not going to copy and paste sections, as I’m sure, like me, that you’ll want to read the whole thing, which you can do right here.

I will of course, give my response.

Firstly, I feel one of the key problems with the ESL Cafe is the lack of interaction between the mod team and the regular Joes. This, among others, is an issue that was picked up on in a recent TEFL Logue post. This is something myself and my moderators have tried to avoid thus far on the ELT World Forums. Mr. K alludes to the fact that the mod team at the Cafe are privileged to be able to help the members who require their assistance. I never felt ‘the love’ unfortunately.

I was particularly intrigued to read Mr. K’s thoughts on the troll issue. While his comments make a lot of sense, it’s sad that the policy seems to have alienated so many who have had genuine contributions to make over the years. He is right when he says that modding a forum is hard work, but there are so many people who can help you out as regular forum members, whose voices I feel are ignored at the Cafe.

I also like some of his ideas for developing the café. A tech forum you say? That seems like a novel idea! But seriously, I’m glad he’s learned something from all that time spent browsing ELT World. Furthermore, the fact there’s no blog of any kind goes to show how far back in the dark ages Dave’s now is when compared to its contemporaries. How can this possibly not have occurred to anyone involved in the site? How? Hang on a minute, why am I agreeing with so much of what Mr. K says? Well, to an extent I agree, because I don’t particularly feel that what has been said is what actually occurs.

Over the past few months, I’ve learned just how tricky it can be to run a TEFL discussion forum, so I have some respect for the man for having entrenched himself in the job for more than five years. I certainly don’t agree with the policies of the café, I don’t even agree that Mr. K does much of what he claims in the interview, but to mire yourself in the negativity that the ESL Café forums have created for so long takes some doing.

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Is Dave’s ESL Cafe to Blame for Unsavory Schools?

Mr Kalgukshi speaks